Proposition h8ate may pass in CA

[Connie]

Nov 15, 2008 15:22:03 GMT -5 havingfunnow said:

_{What is sad, is that everyone abandoned Tara to me and OC}

I don't see it as sad.. I don't think Tara has been "abandoned" at all.

Thank goodness Tara has "The Package" to stand up for what she believes in and to give us all something to think about.

The great thing about this place is that a lot of members are very open minded and unless it's something they feel strongly about, they will sit back, read and THINK...

We need more of that in this country..

The only thing I have to say at this point (because I am keeping an open mind).. is the use of the word "tolerance"...

A great man that I admire very much told me once that this is one word he told his children to never use..

To him, the word "tolerance" implies that you are somehow better than the person you are tolerating.

It was a big wake up call to me.. and to hear it used in this context.. that we should somehow "tolerate" gay people and their marriage.. says something..

[tara]

I have never thought of the word that way, something to think about for sure. I will settle for tolerance over intolerance though although acceptance would be far greater, I doubt it will happen in my life time. I certainly don't think I am somehow better than the gay community, nor am I claiming I don't pass judgment, I do. I judge child molesters, and child abusers, and rapists, and murders, and wife beaters and people who carry signs condemning other people who have cause no one any harm. I can see the the judgment against people who cause others harm, I can not wrap my head around the condemning of the gay community simply because they are gay. Who have they harmed? I am not saying they are all saints but for the most part someone being gay has no effect on anyone other than themselves yet people feel that it's there place to condemn and think of them as lesser human beings. Most (not all) are doing so based on what their religion has taught them but like I said earlier, it comes from the same religions that are suppose to teach the opposite. It's hypocritical

To say deal with it majority rules is fine... as long as people don't. If everyone sat back and shut up women, black people would still be treated like lesser beings. Interracial marriage was once not allowed too. Should women have sat back and not fought for their rights? Was slavery and 'owning' other humans like they were a piece of property okay? Was it wrong for them to stand up for their rights?

No one should just give up and accept being treated as a second rate citizen (this IS America) because of a set back and to say so is ridiculous. You keep fighting for your rights or the rights of others, someone has to stand up and I will continue to do so, even if I am alone, I do not need validation to speak out. I have been often told that my morals and sense of right and wrong isn't as good as others because I am not religious. I was brought up Catholic and despite that, despite the threat of burning in hell, I know in my heart that biogtry is wrong despite who preaches otherwise.

[theqtpie1981]

Wow! I step away for 2 days, and come back to this - it's great! Talking about gays and marriage is a huge deal ... 20 years ago, this conversation wouldn't have happened so openly, I don't think.

I just wanted to throw something else in:

I understand that the majority voted in favor for Prop 8 - however, a majority doesn't make something right. Interracial marriage was illegal, based on majority - and that wasn't right. A group decision doesn't equal a right decision... I can accept that 52% of CA is against gay marriage... and I am choosing to stand with the 49% that believe that gay marriage should be allowed. I am not advocating that the vote should be "over thrown" - I am voicing my opinion of an injustice that I would like to see corrected in my future - and I do think that in the next 10 years, that will happen.

[eileen]

Nov 14, 2008 16:24:04 GMT -5 havingfunnow said:

Nov 10, 2008 7:57:18 GMT -5 theqtpie1981 said:

...

There are others who believe that our nation will go the way of Sodom and Gomorrah - we will become a godless nation if we allow gays to marry. I don't question or attack anyone's beliefs... but since when did Christian love include taking rights away? Shouldn't we allow God to judge others? Not ourselves?

...

Darn right! Kill em all and let God sort em out!



But seriously - don't we live in a Democracy Majority rules

So there is a vote, and the majority ruled; but the minority cries "foul" and all of a sudden it is a h8ate vote.

Gimme a break - John Stossel




Just stirring the pot...

Laws kept people as property, laws allowed you to beat your wife as long as the marks did not show, laws allowed you to break up a family because since they were sub human blacks they could not be parents or spousal units. laws dictate what sex practices you can and can not partake in even in private. laws said my great-grand mother could not vote. Majority rule is a dangerous thing sometimes, so individuals need to be looked after once in awhile. How many millions of dollars did the Mormon church pore into California to spread so many outrageous lies. All that money was tax exempt too because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. Marriage has its oldest tradition as simple business, the definition has been changed and modified over the ages. The civil ceremony of marriage should not be kept from anyone optimistic enough to want it. The only sacredness in marriage is that which is put into it by its practitioners.

[ebotticus]

Nov 14, 2008 15:31:57 GMT -5 mscody said:

I just got this email from a group I am with-there is a petition those who disagree can sign- the 1st link it to the rally venues and the second it to the petition:

Along with our tremendous excitement over Barack Obama's victory, a lot of us are sad and angry about a different election result—the passage of California Proposition 8, which reversed marriage equality and wrote discrimination into the California Constitution.
Many people worked hard to defeat this measure—including MoveOn members, who contributed over $300,000 to defeat it. But agents of intolerance used fear-mongering to eke out a win.

After the election, people across California immediately took to the streets, vowing to put the state on the right side of history by overturning Prop 8.

Now folks everywhere are coming together to add their voices. Tomorrow (Saturday) there will be rallies in support of marriage equality in every single state. If you want to attend an event in your state, go to this page and click on your state name—you'll see the location of any rallies planned:


www.moveon.org/r?r=51025&id=15118-10084752-lR.Ndux&t=1

These rallies will send a strong signal that depriving people of rights is no longer acceptable in America—and it will also be a first step in ongoing activism across the nation.

There's one other thing you can do to support the fight for marriage equality.


The Courage Campaign (which does MoveOn-style organizing in California) is working with other groups on a two-year grassroots plan to overturn Prop 8 in the 2010 election. The first step is for folks to speak out together with one voice right away by signing a pledge to help overturn Prop 8.


Over 100,000 people have already signed the pledge—and thousands more are signing every day. Even non-Californians are signing the pledge in solidarity. If you'd like to sign, click here:

www.moveon.org/r?r=51024&id=15118-10084752-lR.Ndux&t=2

Thanks for all you do.

–Wes, Joan, Carrie, Mari, and the rest of the team

Notice how, in history, the rich and powerful (who are few) ALWAYS use fear to control the masses...and their most powerful tools for that fear are governments, religions, and economies...today, all 3 are being used for such purposes.