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Post by dasmith81 on Oct 29, 2008 8:04:55 GMT -5
Hey Connie! Was just reading your blogs on the Church thing. I'm glad to see such an open discussion, especially this day and age. It never ceases to amaze me on how churches are viewed. I am a Christian, raised in a Christian family, go to a church that actually teaches out of the Bible (something thats not being done a whole lot as it goes against many people's way of life). It's sad, but true, that churches are filled with hipocrites (sp?). But they're like any other business/affiliate. Hospitals are full of unfit healthcare workers, including doctors. Yet we use their services based mostly on FAITH. Companies are full of dishonest business people who hold many futures in their hands via paychecks, yet we show up everyday with the FAITH that they're going to pay what is owed to us. Retail stores are full of gimmicks that are there to do nothing but take your money while making you believe that you just can't live without it, but we buy it anyway (aside for the necessities) based on the FAITH that they are right and truthful. I've seen a bumper sticker that pretty much sums it up.."Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." Doesn't give any of us an excuse for the way we behave, but it's simply human nature, the way God made us. He knows we are going to sin simply because we are human, that's why we have God's GRACE. As far as going to church, I feel it's a personal matter. As I said, I come from a very religious family. When I was a child we were at the church everytime the doors were opened. As a result, I spent several of my younger years not attending anywhere because I was so turned off by it. It wasn't until my children were a little older and I grew up as well, that I returned to my home church. We are lucky enough to have a wonderful preacher who actually teaches straight from the Bible. But I will tell you that I don't agree with everything he says. He personally has never had his heart broken, nor has he had to deal with most of the situations that we all have had to because he led a very protective life. Which means he doesn't seem to have a lot of compassion or understanding about things that people do. For instance, alcoholics. His view is if you don't take that first drink, you won't have that problem. But people, again, are human and very weak. But it's been my experience that he will be dealt with by God himself. The Bible says "Touch not mine annointed ones, for I will", which means it's not our place to "have the preacher for dinner", because God will take care of it. I've seen in my lifetime more ministers taken down or to task by people and things in their own lives, after they've stood at the pulpet and passed judgement on others. In each case, it came out of their own households. Their job is to teach the Bible and to live it as closely as possible, but not to judge others. Unfortunately today, that's not the case. Remember Jim Bakker? It wasn't Jessica Hahn that brought him down, but God himself. I don't attend church every Sunday (eek), I am twice divorced (oh no), I've had pre-marital sex (oh, yeah), I have friends who are gay, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, divorced, living together in sin, you name it, even have a drop of the "recipe" once in awhile but that doesn't mean I am not a Christian. The Bible says to hate the sin, NOT the sinner. In my own family there is/was alcoholism, drug abuse, spousel abuse, gay relationships, divorce, co-habitation, jail birds, the list goes on and on. But every day, we lose our way and find our way back again by reading and believing what the Bible teaches, praying for ourselves and other and asking forgiveness, and continue on with our lives by trying to be a better person and sharing our joys and sorrows with others. Whew! Hope I don't sound "preachy"! I just hope everyone who reads this does have a personal relationship with the Lord, is saved and is trying to live a good and healthy and optimistic life. In short, whether or not you go to church isn't the issue, it's what you believe, how you live and what you teach your children along the way. Your ultimate responsiblity in life is your children. A wise old woman once told me "There are a lot of Christians in hell, and a lot of sinners that's passed through the Pearly Gates!" Please have a blessed day and smile, smile, smile!!!! I'm done for now! #others-164#
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Post by mscody on Oct 31, 2008 16:56:25 GMT -5
I appreciate your views~!
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Post by tnalgirl on Nov 5, 2008 12:49:38 GMT -5
Hi all. I am also a Christian. Brought up in a Christian home all my life. I do not attend church "regularly" because of all the things that go on in churches sometimes. The arguing, hypocrites, back stabbing, etc. I have two children 13 and 10. I don't feel that us not going to church regularly is a major problem. My children know about Jesus and all, I just don't want them to grow up thinking that when you go to church you must take your boxing gloves in case a fight breaks out. I was always brought up to believe that God was love, I believe that. You just don't find it in many churches anymore. Just my opinion.
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Post by Connie on Nov 6, 2008 22:24:49 GMT -5
Dasmith, you couldn't have put it more eloquently or brought any more reality to the issue than you just did. At least for me.. Well said! My only argument would be that Jessica didn't bring the Rev down and neither did God.. he did it all by his own choice....
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Post by havingfunnow on Nov 7, 2008 2:53:32 GMT -5
Up until now, I have avoided posting on this, as my views are very strong. But I figure, hey, if OC can talk about politics when he doesn't want to, then I can jump in here. "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body," - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 For religion is big business, as their tax accounts will show. Christ died for all mankind, but that was long ago... - Here come the Anthros, Floyd Westerman My grandmother's children were forcibly taken from her and enrolled in a mission. This was done for the good of the 'Indian' people. The children at these missions were beaten if they spoke their native language; sprayed with DDT to prevent lice; went without food many times; many were sexually abused; were not allowed to go home for 'holidays', etc... This is what my mother went through, so it is not history to me. When my sisters and I were born, my mother gave us a gift she never had; that being the freedom of religion. The majority of my aunts and uncles became and stayed Roman Catholic. When I was younger, I went to church, but was not a member of the church. I attended Catechism and this was where I ran into my first problem. The Bishop wanted someone in our Catechism class to read for the first communion of the Catechism class ahead of us. Since I was the best reader, he asked me, and I told him I didn't think I could and would ask my mother. I asked her, and we went back to church. She explained to him that since I wasn't baptised, it probably wouldn't be right. He said no problem, I could get baptised right away. I told him no, I wanted to learn about other religions. At that point he got angry, and called me a pagan. I was only nine, but I knew what a pagan was. My mother and I left the church, and I didn't go back. The Bishop's name was John Roach, who later became Archbishop of St. Paul. When he got his DUI in 1985, I thoroughly enjoyed it, although it wasn't very Christian of me to do so. My mother bacame Director of the Council of American Indian Ministries later in her life, and even debated against the Rev. Jerry Falwell. I have read the Bible, Koran, Torah, Quballah, studied many forms of Christianity, Bahai, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, and Native American - probably forgot some - like Norse, Greek, Roman mythology, etc... In 2000, when my mother learned I was attending a Roman Catholic church with masses done in Latin, she asked me why. I told her that it was just in case someone really ticks me off, I can give them the last rites in the original language. Actually, I liked singing in the choir. They say that more people have died in the name of religion, than in all the world wars combined. That is sad. The spousal unit is much more a devotee of organized religion (Baptist) than I am. She even watches TV evangelists, whom I detest (Baker and Swaggert as the top hippocrits). She finds solace with their words, so I am happy for her. I will not support someone wearing $1000 suits asking for money. The latest example was today. Someone on TV was saying "if you find the spirit moving you during this sermon...", and I finished it with "then please send me money" - sure enough, that's what he said next. Big Surprise The spousal unit got mad at me, and I told her I don't care and NO WAY. Giving at church is one thing, but I refuse to do the other. So what are my views I dislike organized religion, although I do like the pagentry. I have been to many Cathedrals, to include the Cathedral of Notre Dame (No, Connie - I was not the guy ringing the bell). I was asked by a well-respected community and church leader, who found out I am not baptised "If you die tomorrow, do you think you will go to heaven?". So I told him yes, and it really ticked him off. This also bothers the spousal unit, as she says you have to be baptised to go to heaven. The argument that you didn't have to be baptised before Christ, but only after, doesn't work for me. What about all the people who never had a chance to learn of Christ? I guess I am really really old school. After studying many religions, I have decided that when the day comes for me to be judged. I want to stand before the Lord, and have done more good in my life than harm. I live my life accordingly. Have a good day, ;D Louis
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Post by Connie on Nov 7, 2008 13:44:58 GMT -5
#allhail#
Im so sorry your mom had to go through that Louis but at the same time it made her who she is and you who you are so it was a good thing in the end.
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candy
Hero in training
Posts: 7
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Post by candy on Nov 10, 2008 14:49:54 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartadly with Connies last statement. I never made my kids go to church, they went to Sunday school with thier baby sitter starting at three because they wanted to, and from there, with different friends to different churches on thier own. I figured they could make thier own decision on what they chose to believe. I truly don't understand how any religion can claim to be the right one. I don't believe that if there is a God up there, that he would send someone to hell just because he wasn't Mormon, or Catholic, or Budist, or Christian, etc, etc. They all have thier gods that they pray too, and live thier lives the way they feel would make him proud. As long as you live your life in good way, and don't hurt others, I would hope you would be welcome to be with him in the end.
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Post by mscody on Nov 11, 2008 11:24:02 GMT -5
I am suprised many of us agree for the most part on allowing your kids the choice.
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Post by kaylinda on Nov 19, 2008 18:53:59 GMT -5
Okay, I've been praying a lot about whether I should respond again to this post, and I really can't let this go without throwing this out there. This is sort of off the subject of whether you should attend a church building or not. I'm concerned with some of the comments made about "being good enough" or that all paths lead to God. Just two scriptures out of many that touch on this (if you don't believe the bible then I guess this is mute point):
"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:22-24)
"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)
Just a suggestion to anyone who is seeking Truth - find a copy of the audiobook "Dinner with a Perfect Stranger" (there's also the book, but I think the audiobook is much more effective) or the DVD "The Perfect Stranger". You can probably find them at your larger libraries (ask them to get it from a different branch if they dont have it) They are very powerful in clearly explaining a lot of things that have been brought up in this posting.
In love, Linda
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Post by Connie on Nov 19, 2008 23:15:04 GMT -5
Kaylinda, Im glad you felt it was okay to reply and I hope you always feel that way.. No one is here to judge you or your beliefs. In fact the passages you quote go to exactly what I am saying... Im not sure you meant them to but they do and if you didn't its a great example of how the Bible can be interpreted differently.
To me BOTH passages say the way to heaven is through belief and acceptance.. NOT through going to Church. There is also a passage in the Bible (sorry I can't quote which one) that says to NOT believe in those who stand on street corners and preach. This could mean don't listen to the "cults" who literally stand on street corners or it could mean some Churches. There is another passage that says only 7 Churches (could be interpreted to mean religions) are true and will make it into Heaven.
I choose to believe that as long as I am a Christian and do what I believe is "right" I am one of those religions and I will make it to Heaven.. Do I treat my body as a "temple"? Nope.. I smoke, I drink to much (especially caffeine), I eat to much fat.. I don't follow the "no cloven hoofs" policy, etc.. Do I REALLY believe that God won't accept me into Heaven because of it? I don't... If he can accept Mary Magdellan (sp?) and her faults.. he truly is the God I believe in and he will accept me and my faults. Like any parent, he will hope I learn from my mistakes and do better but he will still accept me.
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Post by havingfunnow on Nov 20, 2008 0:56:41 GMT -5
...I don't follow the "no cloven hoofs" policy, etc... I never would have guessed you have cloven hooves.
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Post by kaylinda on Nov 20, 2008 10:41:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the encouragement Connie!
Actually some of the things you mentioned (cloved-hooves) are a part of the old covenant in the old testament. When Jesus was crucified, He fulfilled the old covenant with His life and the new covenant is in HIM only. We are no longer in bondage to the old rules & regulations if we are abiding in Jesus and following His guidance. I'd say that 98% of Christians don't get that. They continue to be in bondage to some old testament things (sabbath, tithing, etc.) but don't follow other things (sacrificing animals for our sin). It's hypocritical. That doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want...we need to follow Him. He said to follow the commandments, which are basic guidelines, but it runs much deeper than that. We need to be listening to what God's will for us is at all times, and follow that.
Let me give you an example. I might have an acquaintance who I sometimes spend time with. One morning God places it on my heart to care about that person, taking her some lunch and spending the afternoon with her. But Jackson had a horrible night and is cranky, and I'm exhausted. So I conveniently forget about it...she'll never know, right? But I'm in complete disobedience to God's will for me that day. That's sin, and I need to repent.
The very next day, the same friend calls me and says she was in the dumps yesterday (oops! my bad!) and wants me to go shopping with her at Kohl's because she has a 30% off flyer that she'll share with me. I immediately say "Yes!! I've been wanting to buy a new pair of shoes! And maybe we can grab lunch at the new restaurant!", even though I clearly heard from God earlier that day that He wanted me to spend the day in quiet meditation and fasting. Again, I'm in disobedience to His will and am in sin. Yesterday He wanted me to be with her, today He doesn't. There's no specific rule that I can follow on this - it's all about following Him!!
Now, if this type of behavior continues, and I'm not doing anything about it, I have a problem. Either I'm a counterfeit Christian and really don't have the Spirit leading me (there's a lot more of these out there than we'd care to admit) or Satan (through my fleshly desires) has me in a stronghold and I need to fall at the Father's feet and ask for help in breaking free from it.
I fall into sinful situations every day...mostly through my attitudes and thoughts. We ALL do! The difference with a TRUE Christian is that they recognize that sin immediately (because they have the conviction of the Holy Spirit), repent and TURN AWAY from that sin (don't keep doing it). The non-Christian justifies their behavior, saying that they're a good person still, and makes no attempt to adjust to God's will. God says that our good works are as filthy rags to Him...there's NOTHING that we can do to be good enough to live in eternity with Him. It all falls on to the cross and our allowing Jesus to cover our short-comings by His blood.
It's really very simple. Organized church has complicated it, which leads to the 7 churches referred to in Revelation. I know that people like to over-analyze it because Revelation is full of symbolism and very hard to understand. I believe that John is just referring to the actual 7 cities that had communities of believers during his stay at Patmos. These are the 7 "churches" that existed at the time (mind you, it had nothing to do with a building, but communities of believers). It was only about 60-70 years after Christ was crucified and they were already starting to go off track. Jesus told one church that they lost their first love (HIM!!) It was a warning to all believers that they couldn't continue in their ways because it wasn't the way that God was willing it.
Well, I smell a diaper calling me! If anyone would like to discuss this further with me, but don't want to post, feel free to PM me. It might take quite a while for me to respond since I don't always have the freedom to come to this board, but I will try to respond.
Love to all, Linda
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