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Post by Connie on Sept 3, 2008 21:04:25 GMT -5
Im putting this here because I expect it to be a hot topic.. along with politics.. religion is always "hot".
I was just talking with Dh about Church. We don't go and I don't feel bad about it. I have NEVER seen a Church (and I have been to a lot of them) that isn't filled with hypocrits and usually they seem to be in positions of power. As a result I don't go and don't force my kids to go.
I was just telling dh that Katie and I were talking about Church the other day and I asked her if she wanted to start going. Her response was "no, you and dad can teach me about Jesus".
So I have to wonder.. do you make your kids go to Church? Do you think it is more beneficial than you teaching your beliefs?
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Post by tara on Sept 3, 2008 21:55:15 GMT -5
We do not take our children to church. But, we are remarkably un-religious. We have beliefs but thay don;t seem to fit any one mold so finding a church would be difficult, lol. I refuse to align myself with the hypocrites, because I agree that's what they mostly seem to be. I can not get on board with the judgment and the hatred that religion breeds. That said, my kids are still pretty young but I intend to teach them about religion.... as many of them as I can not force one down their throats. I would rather that be a choice they make on their own.
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Post by mscody on Sept 5, 2008 11:18:13 GMT -5
I was born and bred a full blown Catholic. I went to Catholic school and all-But, As i entered adulthood my beliefs and vies towards that religion changed. I am now just a Christian I guess. I don't go to church either as I don't believe one has to go in order to be saved. The only reason churches were created ( as I was taught) was so the people would not worship alone-it was common ground for Christians. But I think nowadays everything is getting so currupt and biast. For example, my little brother was killed in 99'. I fell back on my "religion" and went to the convent here ( has a really pretty chaple) to go sit and just try to find some type of answer. I was not allowed into the chaple as I had jeans on and the "required" a skirt or "Sunday best." Tearfilled I tried to mumble out that my brother was dead and I needed some type of help, answer, I am not sure even what I said-I was still turned away. So sad- the last I remember saying was "As I recall, Jesus wore a gown and sandals." I couldn't believe it. How times have changed. So, i never forced my daughter (she si 20 now) to go to church as I firmly believe she has the right to make the choice herself as to what she will support or not support, or believe in. ( Of course she has had my guidence with decision making.) She says she believes in God and so on, but does not attend church either.
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Post by Connie on Sept 10, 2008 17:37:26 GMT -5
MsCody, that is so sad and exactly why I have a problem with Churches. I don't believe Jesus or God cares what we wear to Church or anywhere else. He is there for us no matter what we are wearing.
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Post by mscody on Sept 11, 2008 9:57:09 GMT -5
Amen Connie- Just proves that those that say they "go by the bible" actually don't....
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Post by tara on Sept 11, 2008 14:51:25 GMT -5
MsCody, that is an awful story. My most memorable church experience was of the Catholic priest not so quietly mentioning to my then working single mother of 2 that her donation (which I figured was the key word) in the weekly collection plate was not sufficient enough. Also that since we did not attend every Sunday (well we did with gramma but often she had to work and did not attend with us) that my brother should not receive his first communion there. Needless to say she was beyond humiliated and we never returned.
I think I was 9 or 10. I decided on the spot that if he spoke for God... it was not a God I wanted a part of. I like the sense of community that churches can foster, but there are other ways to get that. I also think there are plenty of other ways to be charitable, being so means you give to a cause that touches you.... helping build bigger better buildings to collect my money from, does not fit that in my book. I believe God loves me the same same whether I pray from my knees in the dirt of a top of the line marble floor.
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Post by curlygirl41 on Sept 11, 2008 20:27:18 GMT -5
Good post Connie--I'm surprised at the responses. I live in an area that is part of the bible belt and the unforgiving, hateful things people say just upset me so much. I guess I'll come out and say that I'm a non-believer (I have to be honest-no one knows this but my husband--and now you all! because the reaction I would get would not be pleasant--could cost my job, friends--this is a subject you've got to be careful with around here!) I was raised Catholic and all my life I've struggled with religion. I just couldn't believe that there was a god that would dang this person for never having heard of him and was tired of 'if you're not this religion you're going to hell' and all that nonsense. I'm oversimplifying this, of course, but I am more at peace with my non-religiosity than I've ever been in my life. I am happy. Now, the crazy part--I teach Sunday School. Not so crazy when you consider I teach at a Unitarian Universalist church. What an amazing place! We teach our children all religions--one Sunday will be a lesson about Jesus, another Sunday a lesson about Buddha. I feel so much better knowing I am giving my children a choice. Yes, I have had people tell me to my face that my children are going to go to hell (?!?!) because I am not teaching them the one and only way. But, again, my children are learning so many wonderful things--to accept all people, social justice, responsibility for self and others. I best stop rambling now, but thanks Connie for a great subject. Hope I didn't offend anyone... Jaci
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Post by tara on Sept 11, 2008 20:53:35 GMT -5
Now, the crazy part--I teach Sunday School. Not so crazy when you consider I teach at a Unitarian Universalist church. What an amazing place! We teach our children all religions--one Sunday will be a lesson about Jesus, another Sunday a lesson about Buddha. I feel so much better knowing I am giving my children a choice. I think that is terrific, I think all people should be aware of what is out there and have a basic understanding of all major religions. Not just be something because their parents told them they are. I would totally send my kids to your Sunday School. As for anyone telling you your kids are going to hell... I don't have the words to describe how that makes me feel. I have heard it too.... the kicker is it seems to mostly come from Christians who favorite line is "it's God's, not my place to judge BUT......"
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Post by katieandthekids on Sept 14, 2008 18:32:52 GMT -5
Well, after reading all the posts, my first thought was just to go on reading something else, I did not want to go against the grain, but the post was added by Connie for a reason.
All the stories that were shared are definitely sad to hear, but I hope anyone out there that has not made a decision about church would not think that all churches are bad.
I actually grew up without any knowledge of church, never even visited one. I married a wonderful man that was raised in the church and decided to give it a try. At first it was very awkward, actually for many years. A lot of it was my own insecurities about not knowing what everyone else knew since I had never even picked up a bible.
I am happy to say that today I proclaim myself as a proud Christian. I like to think that I am not judgmental and love everyone. Yes, I have friends that are gay (what a shock). I belong to a great church and have made a conscience effort to get involved, share my heart and have found love in return. Not so say that people will not hurt each other's feelings, people in church should not be held up on a pedestal, we all make mistakes (not to say that the stories you shared were not a shock).
So, that is all I have to say. Not looking for a heated argument, just wanted to share my story. Thank for reading.
Proud women's ministry leader and wife to youth leader
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Post by mscody on Sept 16, 2008 12:42:05 GMT -5
curlygirl41-no offense taken at all- this is why we live in the USA-Freedom of speech! Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and beliefs. Katie-I sure don't judge all churches-I am sure there are some great ones out there! Thanks for sharing your feelings. My beef was pretty much with the Catholic religion. It just seems nowadays that nothing was as it was in the beginning and religions have been (excuse the terminology) developed in to more "cults" than anything-with their own rules, beliefs and whatever-stuff that Jesus neither said nor did! I tried several after FuryJohn died and it was either "tithing (sp?)" challenge week....again....or bashing of gay people, non believers or whatever the case or person may be. That signifies hate to me and I wanted no part of it. I can't remember what church that was but I do know it was a non denominational one. I am a firm believer in God-but, I feel I serve an all loving, forgiving God whether I go to church or not.
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rose22
Hero in training
Posts: 15
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Post by rose22 on Oct 16, 2008 16:05:06 GMT -5
*hugs for all*. Some of you have had some terrible experiences and I am sad for that. I honestly think that every church has it's hypocrite's that ruin it for others- they will never go away because people will never be perfect. Some people have the 'holier than thou' kind've feel, which bugs me, but as i said these 'letter not the spirit' people will never go away. However, I am a firm LDS. I still have a very open mind about things. I grew up in a very multicultural society and was taught about all different religions at school and went to church on a Sunday. I was never forced by my parents to do anything. I didn't have to go if i didn't want to and when i was in my mid-teens, i still went to parties, got in with the wrong crowds and explored whatever i wanted to before i found out who i really was and where my beliefs really lay. I can honestly say that my loving LDS parents NEVER stopped me from doing what I wanted to. Most of my friends were either Atheist or Agnostic. I knew only a few other Christian people my age. I guess my point is, don't be put of religious people because of a few stiff, non-Christ like individuals. I believe it is important to surround yourself with people of all different beliefs and cultures to make yourself well-rounded and form un-biased opinions. I just wanted to cry when I read about mscody's story. No one has the right to turn anybody away from church. It disgusts me. Everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt no matter what their appearance. I once heard that for every angry, hateful person you meet, there is a person inside of them screaming. I wish you all better luck in future experiences
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Post by kaylinda on Oct 16, 2008 20:42:38 GMT -5
Well, I really was only going to be looking for some WAH jobs on here and only focus on that, but I stumbled on this, and am PASSIONATE about Jesus, so I figured I'd add my two cents.
Here's the surprise...my husband & I haven't "attended" a man-made church for several years now. We just believe they aren't biblical. Think about it...the first "church" wasn't created until 300 years after Jesus. What did followers of Jesus do until then? They did what Acts says - living daily from house to house, and that's what we're trying to do now. I say "trying" because it's really hard to open the eyes of hard-core, church attending believers to give up the attending, and actually start "being" Jesus' church. They have too many worldy desires getting in the way and are inconvenienced by letting Him build the church instead of man. So there is just a handful of us right now, but I'm not worried about numbers.
Anyway, the vision we have is to live our lives for Jesus 24/7 with others who are as passionate about Him as we are. It's not a commune - we have our own houses, but we really don't want to look at them as our "own". People are in and out of our house all the time. They are my brothers and sisters in Christ and are more of my family than my own biological family is. We want to spend as much time with other believers as possible...cooking, cleaning, shopping, praying together, etc. It shouldn't be about attending a building once or twice a week and staring at the back of someone's head for an hour or so, and then going back to our own private (and often sinful) lives. When we are exposed to other believers all the time instead of just a few hours a week, the sin also gets exposed and repentence can take place. It's called living in the light, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I really don't think Jesus wants us living hidden lives either. That way there is no hipocracy.
So, when someone asks me where I go to church, I just say that I love Jesus and follow Him. I do need to say that following Jesus is hard and some people view it as judgmental, but if you're going to say you're a Christian, then you need to back it up with a lifestyle that is according to Jesus' heart and not your own. You must abandon your own will and take up the cross. If you say you believe the Bible is the word of God, then you must accept the WHOLE thing, not just bits and pieces that tickle you. Also accept those things that rip your pride away and bring you down on your knees in repentence to The Almighty. And it shouldn't be done just to get a "Get out of Hell free card". It has to be done because you believe He is worthy of your life, and for that reason alone.
Okay, I'll step down from my soap box. I'm sorry if anyone was offended, but I feel I have to speak what I believe to be true. Believe me, I could go on all night. This topic is my life.
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Post by mscody on Oct 22, 2008 9:35:54 GMT -5
Kaylinda, I appreciate your thoughts!
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Post by curlygirl41 on Oct 25, 2008 0:36:17 GMT -5
Wow Kaylinda--you didn't offend at all--You spoke passionately about what you believe in without putting down others. Thank you Jaci
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Post by Connie on Oct 25, 2008 22:58:17 GMT -5
Kaylinda.. You didnt offend at all that I can imagine.. In fact I believe very much as you do.. There is a passage in the bible that says basically to be careful of those who stand on street corners and preach. I believe in that wholeheartedly.. Church is NOT a bad place and I have a lot of respect for those that go and truly follow their beliefs.. However I also do not believe that you must go to Church to be a Christian or a believer. I know many more people who are great and honest and do all the things Jesus and God teach who do NOT go to Church.. and that's where I am.. I truly believe that as long as I am following my heart and doing what I KNOW is right and good and living my life along those lines.. well you get the idea.
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