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Post by Connie on Apr 23, 2010 17:24:15 GMT -5
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Post by weebitty on Apr 23, 2010 18:12:56 GMT -5
glad to see it frankly almost makes me want to move there!! I am glad someone had the guts to do something. It is getting out of hand and dangerous for all of us!!! I wish more states would follow suit!! My humble opinion
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Post by jow32 on Apr 23, 2010 20:24:46 GMT -5
I've only seen and heard a few things in the media on this and I am not sure how agencies will address this new law. I live in an area with a very large Hispanic population. A lot of them are here illegally. Most of them do not cause any problems and are here to do really hard, nasty work in the fields and food production industries. Trust me, these are jobs that most Americans would not do for the wages that these people do them for-and frankly I am glad they are doing these jobs. Do you really want to pay $10 for a pound of apples? I know, there are a lot of facets to this issue regarding the economics of the illegal alien problem and I don't really want to get into that.
As a deputy, I don't want to hassle evey person I come in to contact with about their immigration status. If I contact an Asian or black person who could be from Africa, do I get into the whole immigration thing? My state borders Canada. Do I demand to know if every white person I contact is legal? (I guess I could look for the tell tale signs of mullets, hockey gear and Molson beer in their car!) My point is, how in the hell am I to tell by looking at someone if they are legal or not. A lot of Hispanics have legal immigration status. Are they going to be requried to carry papers with them at all times (or maybe we could require them to sew some sort of identifying mark on their clothes). Trust me, cops will be profiling-which can be good or bad.
When I arrest someone now, Immigration (ICE) will be contacted by our jail if they think there is an immigration issue. Speaking of jails, mine is full, as are most in the country. Where are we going to put all these people that may not have done anything illegal except come here and work? Who do you want in the slammer, Joe Turd who has been molesting his kids or Jose the illegal apple picker? This law will cost money-pick a tax you want to raise to fund it, because you know we aren't going to cut social services!
Politcally, I am a right-leaning centrist, not some bleeding heart liberal as some may think this rant sounds. I am just a guy in the trenches for the past 20 years and has seen the system operate. Most good, law abinding people have no clue as to what is really going on in the justice system. It is really easy to say "Round 'em up and ship 'em home!" That is fantasy and will never happen.
Target the illegal pieces of garbage that come over here and break laws and cause problems. I occasionally work in the Federal Court as a guard. A very large percentage of the cases handled by the Feds here, and probably most everywhere, are illegal re-entries. These are mainly Mexicans who have been deported, re-entered and have been arrested, usually for some type of felony (guns and drugs). They typically receive 3-6 years in Federal prison just on the re-entry violation. It costs us about $2000 a month to house them before they are deported. Multiply this by a factor of ten or twenty and that is what we will be paying to round up people who are here illegally but have not committed any other violations.
This is just my opinion. I can't wait to retire. ;D
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Post by Connie on Apr 23, 2010 20:34:25 GMT -5
You bring up a good point Jow.. So you arrest them.. then what? We pay for them to be in jail or we pay to ship them back just to have them cross again?
What is the answer?
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Post by weebitty on Apr 24, 2010 2:25:43 GMT -5
I am talking mostly about the drugs and the gun runners and such. They are kidnapping americans for the ransom. They are taking over towns, they have their gangs taking over. In Los Angeles I have heard there are places that the police won't go into. It shouldn't be like that. We should have to learn spanish or call on the phone and push one for english. They are holding our kids back in class etc. These are the things I am talking about. When people came over they got legal statis why aren't these people?? Do it the right way and pay your taxes etc. I know there are some hard working mexicans and some of them are very good friends of mine. But they did it legally!! Illegal means illegal. Put the military on the borders and keep them out. If they arn't willing to do it the right way and respect our country then stay home. When the foreigners came over on ellis island they became citizens learned our laws, learned our language and respected america and treated it like their home which it had become. So what has changed. I don't want to fill up our jail with them and pay their way. We have put up with enough from them if they committee a crime here send them home and put them on a watch list like we do any other terriorist and quite letting them back in here. We send you home once what is the penalty if you come back again??? The drug lords and the gang members can we shoot them?? I agree with Jow 32 on alot of what he says. I agree with arizona that something has to be done and the borders are not being watched like they should be. Just like the rancher in texas said on the news he has been there I think he said 18 years and has seen probably 500,000 people cross his land in that time and he is tired of it. can't blame him there.
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Post by havingfunnow on Apr 26, 2010 5:52:39 GMT -5
I have thought about this topic and have decided the following: 1.) It is impossible to target only the illegal aliens with criminal intent from illegal aliens who just want a better standard of living. 2.) Before Mexican Authorities start pointing fingers at the U.S., they really need to clean up their own backyard first (where corruption is rampant all the way to the top - yes I said to the top). 3.) As a Native American, it is hard for me to sympathize with people who are complaining that their homeland is being invaded - while still not paying back the people whom their ancestors practiced genocide on. On a plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty is 'The New Colossus' a poem by Emma Lazarus. Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" "And that's all I have to say about that..." - Forrest Gump
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Post by ravish30 on Apr 26, 2010 10:33:49 GMT -5
I used to live in Arizona...grew up there and I am 1/2 hispanic. My family immigrated here LEGALLY and so should everyone else. I say arrest them and ship them back and keep on doing it.
Wootwoot for Arizona for taking a dang stand on this.
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Post by Connie on Apr 26, 2010 20:01:35 GMT -5
It's great to take a stand Ravish.. but is it right for them to be profiling? Personally after 9-11 and all the hoopla about profiling I was among those who said "do it". This situation is tougher. I guess on one hand if you are here legally and feel you are being harassed for no reason maybe you will tell your buddies and family.. DO NOT cross without the proper documentation.. then again.. maybe you won't care?
I think there is a simpler way of handling it.. if you are here illegally you do NOT get a drivers license.. you do NOT get a job (go after the companies hiring illegals).. you do NOT get to rent a house or buy a house.. you can NOT get a bank account.. so on and so forth
There are better ways of handling it.
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Post by weebitty on Apr 28, 2010 11:59:29 GMT -5
yes but if they would do it we wouldn't need to take this stand. We know the companys are hiring and the banks are giving them credit cards. I think bank of america was the first ones to do it. Etc Etc. We have fine for hiring illegals but it doesn't stop them!! So when do you say enough is enough! Also we all do profiling that is just a name for it. When we see a kid with spiked hair or baggy pants etc we are judgeing him or profiling. they have just put a different name on it is all. The police don't do anything different then we do everyday. Think about it.
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Post by Connie on Apr 29, 2010 23:37:53 GMT -5
The companies that are hurting have NOTHING to do with this problem in my opinion. If they are hurting.. make changes.
Case in point.. me and my husband were both born and raised in America.. Can my husband go through the drive thru at the bank and deposit HIS check in MY account? NOPE.. He has to go into the bank, give his thumbprint, cash his check and THEN deposit it my account.. Yet it's OKAY to give illegals with no paperwork a credit card because they are "hurting"?
First and foremost.. NO drivers license or state ID if you are not here legally.. I have to jump through hoops to get a drivers license and Im a citizen.. Second.. NO bank accounts and NO check cashing if you don't have the proper ID.. ie: a drivers license or state ID (really, this makes it a lot harder for these farmers and small businesses to pay under the table).
NO welfare if you don't have a state ID or drivers license.. NO medical care if you don't have a state ID or drivers license.. Yes this puts hospitals in a bind.. SO if you are hospital and have someone who comes in needing emergency care who does NOT have a state ID or license.. treat them but require the hospital to contact the authorities.. require the authorities to take action..
So the bottom line.. if we stop states from giving people without proper documentation a drivers license or state ID.. MAYBE we could put a dent in the illegal immigration problem.
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Post by crimsulent on May 4, 2010 14:22:39 GMT -5
i might be wrong, but i think weebitty meant to type that companies are HIRING not hurting. i agree, Connie, it is not an acceptable excuse to hire illegals b/c a company is hurting.
now, although this defies common sense, the Heritage Foundation (they are a highly respected Conservative think tank, praised by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, etc) says that illegal immigrants do not negatively impact our economy. when i have time i'll try to provide a link, but it's easy to find if you visit their site.
sort of odd to hear Conservatives point that out.
and Connie, not letting people have driver's licences doesn't accomplish much. they still drive. they just get away with not paying the fees. it seems to me that if they're here, there's an advantage to the state knowing who and where they are and collecting the fees everyone else has to pay to operate a vehicle.
also, there's a problem with not allowing them health care. a LOT of them come from areas where TB and other highly infectuous diseases are endemic. once they're here, it's in our best interest to make sure they aren't infecting the general population.
in the past there have been guest worker programs that allowed people to find work here and granted them temporary legal status. it seems like it might be a good idea to have something like that.
but like a lot of people, i don't get how the government can get away with doing NOTHING. in washington they're dragging their heels, and it's putting the social and economic burden on the border states. that's not fair.
i'm certifiably crazy, so forgive my crazy opinion here, but i think washington's do-nothing response is intentional. i'm guessing both parties see some advantage in letting the illegals in.
whether they think they can get their votes, or whether they have big campaign donors that hire and benefit from illegal workers, i'm not sure. it's also interesting to note that studies show, generally speaking, recent immigrants commit a lot less crime than immigrants that have lived here for a couple generations.
i think immigrants are also being used to destroy the public school system. taken together with all the people that demand their kids be classified as special education, the demands of educating kids that don't speak english in the home are enough to break the back of public schools.
when a quality free education goes down, our country is going to be in a much worse place than it is now, and we're already in bad shape
Mexico is a mess. They have truly wonderful people, but are cursed with an impossibly corrupt government. The population is docile and effectively demands little from the government. I think a lot of US politicians wish we here in America were more like the Mexican people, slavishly obedient and docile.
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Post by weebitty on May 5, 2010 12:17:56 GMT -5
caped you bring up good points as well. I agree that the government has been very slow to respond and the gall of Obama to critize arizona for passing a law to actually do something is evidence of that!!. If you will look at the video I think I posted in here about stupid in America you will understand more. I think it is done on purpose. Yes I believe in conspiracy thories only because they are proving to be more and more accurate over time!!. And then Iowa and North carolina vote the incumbant back in again. Change people you aren't going to get it that way!!! wake up america.
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Post by Connie on May 8, 2010 20:18:17 GMT -5
Yes Crimsulent, I think you are right and that the govt is dragging their heels for a reason.. I think the big question is.. what do OTHER Countries do to combat the problem? Giving free health care to protect Americans is NOT the answer in my opinion. My problem isn't in the fact that they get to drive.. it's in the fact that a Drivers License gives them access to MORE programs. Programs and benefits that are meant for Legal Americans. Seriously.. For ME to get a drivers license I have to jump through hoops and have a TON of ID.. so the states that have a lot of illegals and DON'T require those same documents kind of irritate me.
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Post by Organized Chaos on May 19, 2010 20:00:46 GMT -5
I have thought about this topic and have decided the following: 1.) It is impossible to target only the illegal aliens with criminal intent from illegal aliens who just want a better standard of living. 3.) As a Native American, it is hard for me to sympathize with people who are complaining that their homeland is being invaded - while still not paying back the people whom their ancestors practiced genocide on. I guess I'm a little late to the party, but here goes... In regards to Louis' #1, if they want a better standard of living, fine, but getting it by being here illegally is the wrong way to go about doing it. Our ancestors came to this country with the want & desire to be AMERICANS. They wanted to learn & speak the language (English), they wanted to abide by America's laws, they wanted to fit in to America's cultures & lifestyle, etc. To put it simply, they wanted to be American...not Irish American, not German American, not African American, Hispanic American, just American. Every time the issue of illegal immigrants comes up, someone always says, "This country was built on immigration." Yes it was, but more accurately it was built on LEGAL immigration. If you're Mexican and you want a better life for you & your family, great, but do it right and come here legally. Problem is, so many of them, whether they're legal or not, send all their money back to family still living in Mexico then it doesn't help us at all. Louis' #2: I've pondered the difference between blacks & American Indians a lot. Blacks are a more vocal race when it comes to telling us (whites) how we've done them wrong and what they think they deserve. Indians on the other hand have a lot to gripe about too, but oftentimes they don't. Slavery was not invented in America. It was happening LONG before we settled here. Yet we're practically the only ones blamed for it. It happened, it happened all over the world, not just here...we can't change the past and I'm sick of the white race catching crap for it to this day. Yes the white man came to America and did some unspeakable things to the native Indians. Some we befriended, some we killed...some killed the white man too. A people who once ruled this country are now living in small areas designated to them. I used to think if anyone has the right to complain, it's the American Indians. But man has sought to conquer new land as long as we've been around. Sometimes they succeeded, sometimes they failed. Even some American Indian tribes killed other tribes just because they were different & to take their land. I suppose you can say it's in our nature. So the white man coming to America is just another example of mankind's desire to conquer new lands, to make it their own. Is it always right? No, not always. But we (the white race) didn't invent that either. So as far as "still not paying back the people whom their ancestors practiced genocide on," in my opinion whites owe blacks & American Indians nothing. Why should whites, or any race for that matter, monetarily pay for the mistakes made by their ancestors? What we did to both races wasn't right, but it wasn't new either. Do we owe Asians reparations for having them build our railroads? During the Civil War, more soldiers were killed then than all other wars we've been in combined. We were killing "our own kind." Does the North owe the South, or vice versa? I'm part German so should I apologize to Jews? What's done is done and we can't take any of it back. OK back on topic. Arizona has the right to protect its borders. This law covers racial profiling and mirrors Federal immigration laws. Sometimes we hear about police who pull over black people and are accused of doing so simply because they were black. But this issue in AZ is no different, only with Mexicans, and it's being blown way out of proportion. So it requires non-citizens to carry documents proving their status. Every non-citizen in the U.S. has been required to carry such documents since Congress passed the Alien Registration Act in 1940. I heard one ding dong on the news ask, So is AZ law enforcement going to pull over white people to see if they're illegal Europeans? Give me a break, that's not the issue. Call it racial profiling or not, but the problem in this country IS NOT illegal Europeans, it's illegal Mexicans. Not to say there aren't other illegals here. My home state of IL is one of the primary destinations for illegal Mexicans because when it comes to the State providing them education, we're one of the most generous. That is ridiculous. I apologize if any of my rant sounded racist, but this topic is about race after all.
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Post by weebitty on May 20, 2010 15:31:15 GMT -5
grrrr Obama is saying arizona law is discrimintory!! BS They are upholding the law that the goverment should be doing and arn't is all. Mexico doesn't want it because the United States is the second source of income!!! But we have mexican cartel and gang here now. We really needed that. And they arn't the only gangs!! When is it going to stop. If they do a crime in this country deport them and put them on terriorst watch list. Because they keep getting back into this country!!
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