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Post by eileen on Aug 11, 2009 0:47:13 GMT -5
I think this site is at least trying to clear up the message the White House is trying to get out. The Dems in general are still in the various committiees so there is not one true bill yet there. I just hope some informative discussions and inteligent debate will out. With all the blantant lies coming out like death panels and rationing and letting older Americans die on waiting lists propagating out of the mouths of ex Gov Palin, ex Speaker Gingrich, Glenn Beck and others some other information needs air time. www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/Read, listen, and hopfully common sense will tell you what needs achiving.
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Post by crimsulent on Aug 11, 2009 20:44:39 GMT -5
Oh, cool! I heard about the site on a news report yesterday.
The euthanasia rumor is really excellent!
It shows just how stupid Gingrich et al think their public is.
Sort of reminds me of the arguments against the ERA back in the day (men and women will be forced to use the same bathroom, etc). Hilarious!!!
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Post by eileen on Aug 11, 2009 23:52:04 GMT -5
It would be a bit funnier if the scare tactics weren't working on so many loud people.
The way they are trying to scare really old people is shameless though and it pisses me off a bit too.
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Post by Organized Chaos on Aug 12, 2009 15:12:31 GMT -5
What you consider nothing more than "scare tactics working on so many loud people" might just possibly be honest, intelligent Americans making a choice and voicing out.
Just because concerned citizens are standing up against this, doesn't mean they are trouble makers, which is the rhetoric we hear from the left.
I think it's pathetic that lefties are putting Americans down for standing up for what they believe in, even calling them un-American. Dems didn't appreciate being called un-American when they voiced out against the Iraq war. The only difference now is your side is the one calling names so that makes it ok.
I'm happy & proud to see Americans standing up for something, anything, because for the most part we've become too complacent and just let what happens happen.
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Post by Connie on Aug 12, 2009 17:41:19 GMT -5
So really, where do they get the idea that health care reform will mean Euthanasia for the elderly? Doesn't that seem pretty far fetched for an intelligent person to be claiming? Or are these just the people who are so dead set against health care reform that they really are trying "scare tactics"?
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Post by tara on Aug 12, 2009 20:55:44 GMT -5
Making a choice and voicing out lies. That is what it is. Maybe they are ignorant enough to believe them, but that still doesn't make them facts. There are no death panels, there will be no death panels. It is a lie. I read this www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877 article yesterday before they edited it that said we should be scared like idiot Palin says... If Stephen Hawking lived in the UK he would be dead because of these so called death panels. Apparently someone finally informed them he lives in England and they were dead wrong. It has since been edited. But it got him issue4 a statement crediting England's health care FOR his life.
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Post by weebitty on Aug 12, 2009 22:16:45 GMT -5
www.jonbarron.org/baseline-health-program/2009-07-20.php Here is another opinion on health care and it isn't what you would think. He brings the numbers into reality of how many are really uninsured. But then again government likes big numbers to stress their point. So maybe we shouldn"t feel that desperate and take the time to see things clearly??? How many have honestly ready 1,000 pages of a bill except the one who wrote it??? When you rush into something it never seems to work right and then it is more expensive to fix the problems that you have created then the orignal problem. I have to agree that the americans have been silent for too long and I am glad to see them stand up for something finally maybe the old fight is gone after all. This is a hopeful sign in of itself. They maybe misguided but at least they are voicing an opinion loud and clear. I am glad to see people finally get riled up about something. I am still on the fence about health care. Do I want government run health care no but then again I don't like government period. I don't trust them at all. So do I want them to take care of me I think you would know the answer to that one.
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Post by eileen on Aug 13, 2009 0:33:50 GMT -5
That's the point, common sense is just not evident just fear. Today two of the top Republicans (Sen. Grassley for one) are still using language like, “you have a real right to fear”, ‘..we can't let Congress decide when to pull the plug on Grandma". The Senator knew for a fact that was a lie and said it anyways to a ranting crowd.
It is bogus. It is a set up. And most of it is based on fear mongering and baiting the haves against the have nots.
I want the debate to be about the nuts and bolts of the proposals being floated not crap about killing granny, if President Obama was born in the US, or how bad Canada has it. (Most Canadian are quite happy with their plan by a large majority). I want the debate to be about why Doctors have to do what costs the most and not what will work as well at half the cost. I want to know why costs are so high and what can actually be done to cut them. I want everyone that gets a little sick to be able to get care before they are big sick. These are the topics I want input and feedback on.
The rude and mouthy are trouble makers; they also have a right to be heard, I never said they didn't.
As for the 'Liberal Media' I wish there was more of a liberal media, but there isn’t. That is the urban myth of all times. Most so called liberal media could never get away with the baseless tidbits the Fox News puts out. The right wing has had the upper hand in media matters for sometime.
I hate lables but us so called Liberals are just fine; we are normally on the side of rights. Liberals have a great history of being on the right side of an argument like civil rights, women rights, voting rights, and right now the liberals are just as mad they are not getting the universal health care they want but are not showing up at rallies with guns tied to their legs; they are not painting swastikas on signs. And they are not saying one thing during committee meetings, then inciting deather sentiment at town halls as are the majority of Republican officials.
I don't think the proposals go far enough, but I will get what ever small start to fair price, top notch medical for all Americans regardless of ability to pay. Keeping Granny alive should never be a question of dollars but dignity.
I also liked the Hawking thing, that was great foot in mouth, the fact is if he had been born in the USA he would most likely have been warehoused, and the world would have missed out on some pretty awesome science.
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Post by havingfunnow on Aug 13, 2009 10:32:16 GMT -5
So far I have stayed out of this one, but I would like to address the issue of Section 1233 of HR 3200, entitled ‘Advance Care Planning Consultation: source: Red County Regional Perspectives The provisions of H.R. 3200 go beyond providing information; it states that the federal government will use doctors, nurses and PAs as proxies to push palliative care on all Americans. The bill pushes people toward ending their life earlier rather than later, so the Government ca save money by reducing the growth in health care spending and for other purposes. Medical Dictionary definition of Palliative care: 1) Medical or comfort care that reduces the severity of a disease or slows its progress rather than providing a cure. For incurable diseases, in cases where the cure is not recommended due to other health concerns, and when the patient does not wish to pursue a cure, palliative care becomes the focus of treatment. For example, if surgery cannot be performed to remove a tumor, radiation treatment might be tried to reduce its rate of growth, and pain management could help the patient manage physical symptoms. 2) In a negative sense, provision only of perfunctory health care when a cure is possible. Another thing that concerns me is that these decisions have to be done by an individual at the age of 50. Personally, I have had Advance Directives in place for years, and know that I can change them at any time. However, this seems like you have to plan the end of your life at 50, and that's it. Also, no matter what you plan, if your medical condition changes drastically, then the decisions you have made really don't matter, because they can be over-ridden by the Government Health Boards - which will determine life or death - this can't be sugar-coated. Should this be allowed? It is not for me to say, but something has to change. Is this being rushed into? IMHO, yes, because President Obama's has made it his baby, and public focus is off of Afghanistan, where US deaths are increasing again. Ooooops, did I say that? My bad...
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Post by Connie on Aug 13, 2009 12:27:15 GMT -5
I've read this twice, I don't see anything inappropriate. So they want everyone to have a plan of action or a living will. What's wrong with that? I really would rather see them change the age to 21 rather than 50. Maybe it would make everyone feel better and how many people do we have on life support right now with no directives in place?
None of us know for sure when something might happen at any age. I for one do not have a living will or directives in place (irresponsible of me I know). However I know that a lot of our grandparents do have DNR's already in place "just in case".
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Post by tara on Aug 13, 2009 20:59:11 GMT -5
Unless I am missing something, I agree with Connie. I take that as everyone needs to have a living will by the age of 50, I don't find that to be bad, every adult should have one... does it say you are not allowed to change it after the age of 50? If so, can you show me where?
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Post by eileen on Aug 13, 2009 22:02:38 GMT -5
Living will where extolled by Gringrich, Limbaugh, and Palin all in 2008, the fact checks are in and all three are on tape, radio, and print as backing the exact same proposals that are trying to find their way into a real bill. Now they all call it a plot to kill Granny. They are the dirty deeds players.
As for the Republican saying government should not become involved with families end of life decisions, it retold to me how the Republicans made such a big deal and took great effort to impose its will on the Terry Shivo case. President Bush cut his vacation short to say the government must step in. So much for family autonomy.
Every in that portion of the bill as I read it give a family the chance to go over all the options and possibilities that come with terminal illness or accident. Having some to talk to that can tell you what to expect and the choices that can be made ahead of time is actually a blessing for those left behind to possible talk for the patient. There is no force, their will also not be any extra charges because it is covered.
This is an idea that was never controversial till Betsy McCoy made up the lies, and Ex Gov Palin ran with it. Gingrich then saw how he could use it to his advantage, and Rush is just being Rush.
I am so glad to see AARP taking an active roll with it members to dis spell these fear tactics for what they are. Lies.
I have a living will, and at my end if I'm still awake I want to know my options and I don't want my kids paying the bill. If I am not awake I want a doctor to be able to explain to my kids why I chose what I chose and what I could expect to see, again without them having to foot another bill.
The whole side show is a despicable attack on the fear of this nations elderly.
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Post by weebitty on Nov 3, 2009 12:28:21 GMT -5
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7xfoSiH5Q Well I found this posted on a Canadian newspaper. Thought the Americans would be interested in seeing this. And yes the government is ploting to kill granny as someone here say is not true. They are cutting medicare and medicaid payments to doctors. thereby the doctors will drop most medicare patients and medicaid to the elderly because they can't afford to do business with them. Also they are raising all the premiums to the elderly. What is wrong with this picture. Plus if you don't get the health insurance you are fined over $1,000.00. That really helps doesn't it.
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Post by weebitty on Nov 14, 2009 1:53:41 GMT -5
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